arfur, your last opening gambit is true. There would not be a Mount's Bay (of any consequence) had Pirates not chosen to leave Penzance. That is not anything other than fact, I believe, and I presume that is what you meant.

arfur, just read your last post. Fair enough. I was only saying that, (and my last post also) as an illustration of how easy it is to get the wrong gist of a posting. (I am not sure if that is making sense, but I can't delay too much getting the wording right - otherwise I won't post till 1:00 a.m. or so.)

Quote :

DaveH wrote : There would not be a Mount's Bay (of any consequence) had Pirates not chosen to leave Penzance.

There wouldn't need to be.

Had not Bay cut the chord with the Pirates and became independent before the Pirates decided to play their 1st XV games at Kenwyn.?

And btw Dave the Pirates, namely Penzance & Newlyn RFC have NOT left Penzance. It's only the 1st team that play away from the Mennaye. Surely you of all people know that a rugby club is not just the 1st team?

Not that old chestnut AGAIN.  God, give me strength (and perhaps a sharp stick)  You've made your bed in Camborne, or Truro, or Hell for I care.  Now go away and lie in it, preferably quietly and without constantly telling everyone how comfy the bed is, how it's the only bed that matters in Cornwall, and denigrating everybody that won't get into bed with you.

Hear hear TDH!

Yes arfur and how much interest do the Cornish Pirates take in their P & N junior clubmates?  Do they even know their names?
Its the taking of the Cornish name in vain that annoys me, you call yourselves Cornish for marketing and money making purposes and then fail to provide a Cornish product.  Mounts Bay don't call themselves Mounts Bayish.

Whoops, was that me that started this again?

Pasty,
I agree that the Pirates could do more for the younger players within PZ & N RFC but to say that they are failing to provide a Cornish Product is welL wide of the mark,Crowds are on the increase,I regularly see kids in Truro and Camborne wearing Pirate shirts,I have also seen people from clubs around the County,who would never have bothered watching the Pirates 5-10 years ago,at Camborne,10-12k people went to Twickers,the Press Gang Supporters are going from strength to strength with  branches in the East of the County and An Exiles as well,they must be doing something right OR a lot of people disagree with you.

TDH,
Where have I denigrated Mounts Bay RFC? Please show me one of my postings that does that. Although I don't get to as many Bay games as I would like whenever I do go I support Bay, I sure as hell don't want to see the other side win, unless it's the Pirates of course.

I don't see that saying that without the Pirates and D.Evans there wouldn't be a Mounts Bay RFC as denigrating you at all. Just stating a fact.

That wasn't what I said at all

Quote :

The Druth Hurts wrote :denigrating everybody that won't get into bed with you.

At no point did I mention Mount's Bay.  I was referring to the constant 'CPs are based in Penzance' bulls**t.  You're only fooling yourself, you know. Repeating yourself, over and over again ad nauseam, doesn't neccessarily make it true.

arfur, It may be true that the club 'Penzance and Newlyn RFC' have not left Penzance, but then again it may not be. If watching the business of P&N adminstration on a Saturday afternoon, or indeed during the week, is your bag, then I suppose it is still Penzance based. Yes I know there may still be a few minor trinkets at the Mennaye, but for most people the first team is the club. I bet when Dicky Evans arrived he did not say 'I am going to have the best mini, junior and lower teams around'. I bet what he did say was 'I want top division rugby for the first team'. To achieve that end he felt he had to move the team away from Penzance.

That might have been good sense form both a rugby and business point of view, but it does mean, in my view, that the Pirates are not a Penzance based club.

An interesting poll for the Pirates website might be: 'do you consider the Cornish Pirates to be based in Penzance?'

Pirate Pig has some interesting points. I am not quite sure how relavnt they are this this little spat, but quite interesting none-the-less. Kids from Truro and Camborne probably show, even if they don't realize it, that Pirates are not Penzance any longer. In terms of the increase in people watching, I do believe that most clubs, at the top end, have increased their spectator numbers. Cornwall doesn't have much, in terms of football, with which to compete. I don't think there is any doubt, from several viewpoints, that Pirates have done, are doing, several things right. One of the things was to leave Penzance, while still claiming that they haven't. It is that that sticks in the claw of the likes of TDH and BoP.

PP,
I didn't say that the Pirates had produced a poor product just that it wasn't very Cornish, ie. very few and quite a few times no Cornish players.  If you had called yourselves anything other than Cornish, just the Pirates perhaps, then I would have no complaints.
I have the same problem with the CAB.  Taking of the Cornish name for pure marketing purposes.  

--Last edited by PASTY on 2008-05-14 10:03:36 --

DaveH, the Pirates leaving Penzance certainly didn't bother me in the way that it upset many other people.  Bear in mind that I supported them when I could, but if asked I always claimed to be a Redruth fan.  What sticks in my craw is the vitriol you get from CPs fans when you dare to give the opinion that what they did was wrong (for whatever reason)

Pasty,
       OK you personally may not like the use of the word 'Cornish' by the Pirates but it is after all a means of marketing them,in which is after all a business(whether we like it or not).
Wasps use the word 'London' in their title and they now play in Buckinghamshire,at least the Pirates are still based in Penzance and play in Cornwall.
As for the reasons that they left Penzance,well that has been previously debated and was done with the 'backing of the majority of the members'.
Maybe its time to move on,regardless of our point of view and return to the original thread.

DaveH,
         The Pirates are most definately still based in Penzance but play their games elsewhere,which is also done by a couple of premiership clubs and their attendances have not been affected either.
The Pirates are proving a success,crowds are up,income is up and a club that was once in a dire state and almost bankrupt,has been turned around into a club with a realistic chance of achieving top flight rugby for Cornwall,who else can do this ?,ask Launceston,how difficult it was to try and survive in Nat One on a limited income and supporter base.
Something had to give and it was the need to move away from the Mennaye,which I know was not an easy decision for Dicky or the members but I feel that it has so far been justified,by the success of the club 'on and off' the field.
Are the Pirates now more popular in the rest of the County than in Penzance,not from the number of Penzance people I see at Camborne,at the away games i get too and also at Twickenham,not to mention the crowds ,who lined the streets last year,when they paraded the EDF Trophy in the town,they call 'home' and judging by the numbers of people applauding them in the street,so do a fair number of the population still consider them to be from Penzance.
Anyway we might have to agree to disagree and return to the original purpose of this thread.

There's a lot in what you say, Pirate Pig, about pirates still having a big support from Penzance.

When Pirates got to Twickenham last year I saw loads of Bay fans there in the stadium - surely that shows what a broad minded lot we are......

Wino,
       Yes I did but hopefully you noticed all the Pirates supporters,who stayed on and cheered Bay to victory as well.

Ah! Just like old times, we did this one last season did't we.

It's that time of year Pz01.

I agree PP the Wasps use of London in their name is equally as bad as the Pirates using Cornish in theirs.  Not to mention London Irish who play in Reading and who have a new competition called spot the Irishman.
As for the parading of the Trophy in the streets of PZ, everybody else I have spoken to who was there said the team were largely ignored and that they felt embarresed for them.